Me again-- Just realised something you mentioned in your post-- You are now " down under " ?

is joyce hayward still alive - any information please

Passed away in 1998

I also danced at the Palaise in the late 50s, I remember the Ladies all sitting together at one end and the men at the other end . It was so embarrassing to cross the floor to ask a Lady for a dance and be turned down. I was just learning to dance. I went to a dance school in Hendon London, the dance variation I learnt are the same as today.

This is really off topic, but given that this discussion has been about tango, I thought that I'd mention that the 'walk of shame' (returning to your seat, having been refused a dance) would never happen when dancing Argentine Tango organised in the traditional way.

There, the cabeceo is used: making eye contact across the room, acknowledged with a little nod or gesture, so that the agreement to dance has been reached before the man goes over to the woman to escort her to the floor. If eye contact is not made, or if having met someone's glance, you then deliberately look away, you have turned down that would-be partner, but no one else will have seen, and no embarrassment results.

It's a very civilised way to arrange things, and is gender-neutral, in that a woman can be actively seeking eye contact with a man, just as easily as the other way around.

Here in the UK, social dancing in Ballroom & Latin American styles has become unsocial dancing, unfortunately. I've lost count of the number of people that tell me that their parents met at a dance - but these days, if you don't go with a partner, you will rarely get to dance all night, and partner rotation is almost unknown. It is the main reason why I rarely bother to dance in those styles, any more. When I'm at a Milonga, I can dance with twenty partners, if I stay long enough. From what I gather (but have no experience of it), things are different in the 'States, at least at studio 'parties'?

Telemark, you should really re-post this with a different Subject line , something like
dance customs? I found it so interesting I may want to post it on my web site
( http://sites.google.com/site/mjtnemeth/ ) with permission of course.
As you say some customs have fell in to dis use (unsocial).

Im sure there are customs particular for tango that others know. I know that that to
say "thank you" after a single dance would signal to the partner you didn't want to
dance the rest of set. Or that the embrace should be invited.

You're welcome to repost my comments if you wish.

The 'Thank you' convention is rather silly, not in the sense that there shouldn't be a recognised way to end a dance if you feel uncomfortable continuing, but to choose to 'thank' your partner does seem a strange choice of words.

As for the embrace, the convention is that the follower chooses how close she wants to be to the leader. The most traditional embrace, which really is rather more of a hug than it is a 'hold' is very close, with body contact at the upper chest and with the arms rather loosely around each other and with the elbows close to the body and down. Not every follower is comfortable with this degree of physical contact, and sometimes a more open embrace (very like that adopted for Latin American dancing) is chosen instead. The convention is that the leader invites to follower take an embrace, and she determines how close it will be. Not respecting her freedom in this regard is one of the most common reasons to say 'thank you' and leave.

A Tango cannot be danced as it should be danced if there is any space between the partnership. The mans right palm should be on the ladies spine which if we are miles apart will not be possible.

To dance correctly whether it be Tango or any of the other Modern Ballroom Dances
the positioning of the bodies is very close. There lies the problem between Social Dancing and Competition Dancing. No problem if in Social dancing the pair know each other very well and have attended classes. But if they are complete strangers. Need I say more. Those two sections mentioned are worlds apart. Ladies Social or not... keep your head looking to your left unless the step is going to be in Promenade.

Hi Peter
Thank you for the information about joyce hayward
I met Joyce many years ago at Sherry's ballroom in brighton but lost touch - I am sorry to hear of her passing as I always intended to try and find out what happened to her when she retired from professional dancing - I would be grateful if you have any information that would be of interest to me -such as returning to ballroom etc.
Sorry to have been so long replying to your message - I am not very computer literate.
Ron Miles